Re: Clinical trials of antioxidants 14 February 2005
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James J Whitehead,
Researcher Getting Better
40A Josephine Avenue London SW2 2LA

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Re: Re: Clinical trials of antioxidants

Dear Eleni ,The Perth Group, Nicholas and all,

I would just like to say that I back this this request 100%.

It has been shown through out this debate that antioxidants ect can significantly slow down disease progression, improve survival,and reverse some "aids" defining diseases like wasting.

The only way to resolve this debate is through scientific experiments and large scale clinical trials. With and with out combo.

It would be interesting to repeat these two expeiments again in animals pre depleted by some GSH lowering agent/s.

but also try using antioxidants like NAC,SAG,ALA to name just a few ,I am sure All "sides" could come up with some good designes.

Where is the evidence that "HIV" is causally related to KS? 25 August 2004

Christopher J Noble, postdoc Australia "There is a bit more than just the correlation of HHV-8 with KS. There is temporal relation showing HHV-8 seroconversion before development of KS. There are also animal models for HHV-8 and KS. Etiology and pathogenesis of Kaposi's sarcoma., Injection of human herpesvirus-8 in human skin engrafted on SCID mice induces Kaposi's sarcoma-like lesions. "

REPLY

HHV-8 and KS 18 October 2004

Eleni Papadopulos-Eleopulos, Biophysicist Department of Medical Physics, Royal Perth Hospital, Western Australia, 6001, Valendar F Turner, John Papadimitriou, Barry Page, David Causer, Helman Alfonso, Sam Mhlongo, Todd Miller, Christian Fiala

"

Christopher Noble gave us one paper which apparently he considers to contain "extremely strong evidence for the causal role of HHV-8 in Kaposi's Sarcoma". The paper by Nickoloff et al entitled: "Etiology and Pathogenesis of Kaposi's Sarcoma" was published in Recent Results in Cancer Research, Vol. 160, page 331-342; 2002.

In his rapid response: "KS and UV", 20 September, Nicholas Bennett wrote: "I have previously supplied information that supports the premise of HHV8 being an oncogenic virus epidemiologically associated with KS. The simplest conclusion (Occam's Razor) being that it is the likely cause. Other factors do not share the same association. The Perth Group say that I have not done so, but I point them in the direction of the many responses here on the BMJ Rapid Responses, in particular one by myself dated 21st August. If the Perth Group choose to ignore them that is their perogative, but they cannot say I did not answer their request. They have clearly read it because it sparked the discussion regarding the carcinogenic properties of water and semen. It contains references that I'm sure will answer most or all of the questions regarding the oncogenicity of HHV8 and epidemiology of KS (if not them directly, then the references within)."

Epidemiological association is not proof for causation. Neither in Christopher Noble's reference nor in any of Nicholas Bennett's references is there any theoretical basis in respect of the claim that HHV-8 is carcinogenic. Nor is there any experimental evidence that HHV-8 is carcinogenic. All the researchers who have tried to induce KS by HHV-8 have reported that at best they could obtain, "cutaneous lesions resembling Kaposi's sarcoma" or "Kaposi's sarcoma-like lesions". However, "dramatic depletion of CD4-positive cells, progressive impairment of the immune response, and Kaposi's sarcoma-like tumours or terminal B- lymphomas", can be induced "by mating BALB/c female mice to C57BL/6 males during 1-year period (7-10 allogenic pregnancies) followed by immunisation with paternal lymphocytes".[1] "

1. Ter-Grigorov VS, Krifuks O, Liubashevsky E, Nyska A, Trainin Z, Toder V. A new transmissible AIDS-like disease in mice induced by alloimmune stimuli. Nat Med 1997;3:37-41.

www.theperthgroup.com

Best wishes

James J Whitehead

Clinical trials volunteer. Member www,altheal.org and aidsmythesposed.com

Competing interests: Member www.altheal.org