Re: One simple question for the Perth Group. 4 June 2004
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Eleni Papadopulos-Eleopulos,
Department of Medical Physics, Royal Perth Hospital, Western Australia, 6001,
Valendar F Turner, John Papadimitriou, Barry Page, David Causer, Helman Alfonso, Sam Mhlongo, Todd Miller, Christian Fiala

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Re: Re: One simple question for the Perth Group.

Re: One simple question for the Perth Group


In his rapid response “One simple question for the Perth Group” 3rd  June 2004, Christopher Noble wrote: “The rules that the Perth Group describe are their invention and it is blatantly deceptive to attempt to ascribe them to scientists at the Pasteur Institute.”


We are amazed that people like Christopher Noble take what we quote from other scientists' papers and ascribe them as being our “invention”.   That is, ascribe to us formulations (“rules”) that other scientists have formulated.    We have repeatedly pointed out this fallacy in this debate.



Christopher Noble wrote: “I am asking the the Perth Group to produce evidence that supports their claim that the "set of rules for the isolation of retroviruses" that they have espoused exist in any form outside of their imagination. The papers they have provided so far do not support their claims. It would help if they could provide references which actually state in plain words everything that the Perth Group claim.”


In 1975 the well-known retrovirologist John Bader wrote: “Although minor consistent differences between strains can be found, virions of RTV [retroviruses] have a characteristic buoyant density, and centrifugation to equilibrium in density gradients is the preferred technique for purification of RTV.”(1)


Christopher Noble wrote:  “These papers are apparently only cited by the Perth Group.  A search of the Science Citation Index produces no other citations”.


Barre-Sinoussi, Chermann and Montagnier themselves cited this paper in 1984:  "For endogenous reactions using only the viral RNA as template primer, the virus [HIV] was concentrated (7) and purified on sucrose gradient using isopycnic centrifugation (8)” (2).   Reference 8 is their Spectra paper.


Christopher Noble wrote: “A single set of rules for the isolation of viruses does not exist. Like all other fields of science researchers produce a number of independent types of evidence for their claims.”


We agree.   Would Christopher Noble please tell us:


Q1.  What method did Montagnier, the “discoverer” of “HIV”, use?


Q2.  What is the evidence in the Montagnier 1983 study which convinced Christopher Noble “HIV” exists? 




1.  Bader, J.P., Reproduction of RNA Tumor Viruses, in Comprehensive Virology, H. Fraenkel-Conrat and R.R. Wagne, Editors. 1975, Plenum Press: New York. p. 253-331. This quote is on page 259.


2.    Rey MA, Spire B, Dormont D, Barre-Sinoussi F, Montagnier L, Chermann JC. (1984). Characterization of the RNA dependent DNA polymerase of a new human T-lymphotropic retrovirus (lymphadenopathy associated virus). Biochemical and Biophysical Research Communications 121:126-33.

Competing interests: None declared