Re: Rhetorical questions 21 December 2003
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Christopher Tyler,
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Re: Re: Rhetorical questions

I find it ironic that Christopher Noble would cite as evidence that the Perth Group have been given chances to accept 'the truth' about HIV by citing documents that are neither formally published, nor peer reviewed.

On 17 September 2003, Christopher Noble wrote, "If the Perth Group writes an article with hundreds of references at the end it does not make it a scientific article. It is necessary that the cited references actually support the arguments stated in the text. I have already provided a number of examples where the references given by the Perth Group do not support their arguments. Peer review would address some of these points but the Perth Group circumvent peer review by publishing on the internet."

The first reference given in his rapid response, 'Rhetorical Questions' on December 17th, 2003, is exactly the kind of document he previously chastised the Perth Group for (1).

The NIAID/NIH 'Fact sheet': - is anonymous; - has citations which are restricted to the protagonist case; - changes occasionally without warning or explanation; - has no forum for those who disagree with parts of it to respond; - gives no information about the review process, if any, used to validate it; - prejudges the issue by labelling the dissident case as "myth" and the protagonist case as "fact"; - fails to detail the dissident case in the same details as the protagonist case.

For those monitoring this forum, who wish to view a critical examination of the NIAID/NIH document and to see if its 'cited references actually support the arguments stated in the text', please visit http:// www.healtoronto.com/nih/

Christopher Noble states, "Perth Group are not presenting themselves as students willing to learn." It could be said that this state of affairs applies itself equally to Christopher Noble. In fact, science is not about unquestioning religious belief, but is about asking questions and critical thinking.

The question which is now before the forum, specifically for Christopher Noble is, what is the evidence in Montagnier's paper "that a virus, later called HIV, can be found in patients that have AIDS"? What is the evidence in his 1983 paper [2] that such a virus exists in anyone?

Chris Tyler

1. http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/evidhiv.htm

2. Barré-Sinoussi F, Chermann JC, Rey F, Nugeyre MT, Chamaret S, Gruest J, et al. Isolation of a T-lymphotropic retrovirus from a patient at risk for acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS). Science 1983;220:868-71.

Competing interests: None declared